This is a text version of Michael Rosen's interview with Rachel Everard, speech and language therapist and Chair of BSA, and actor Michael Palin, on Radio 4's Word of Mouth programme.
Michael Rosen: So let's begin, Rachel, with this business of the fact we seem to have two words, 'stammering' and 'stuttering'. Why is that?
Rachel Everard: I'm not sure about the historical context but basically they mean exactly the same thing. Stammering is used more in this country and stuttering is used more in the States. But they both refer to the same condition. And there's another word that speech therapists often use, which is dysfluency. So there are three terms and all of them mean exactly the same thing.
Michael Rosen: OK, let's move to causes then. What's the latest thinking on the main causes for someone who stammers?
Rachel Everard: No-one really knows what causes stammering and that's what is so interesting about the condition. I would say that the latest thinking is that it is caused by an interplay of a range of factors and they can be grouped in four ways. There are genetic, there are also linguistic factors, environmental factors and psychological factors. So for example if you have a child in a family where there is a history of stammering then that child is probably more at risk of developing the condition themselves. If also the same child is having problems when they're very young acquiring speech and language skills then that could be another risk factor. And then there's also the environmental factors - where say they're in a very busy household, lots of brothers and sisters, everything's done at a very fast pace, that could also be a risk factor.
Michael Rosen: Really, what, with a large number of siblings in a family?
Rachel Everard: Well, sometimes the environment, although it never causes stammering directly, can perhaps not be very helpful to a child who stammers, because when a child is learning to speak, it's a bit like when a child is learning to walk, they need a lot of practice and a lot of time, and if say they are in a family where everybody speaks very fast and it's sometimes difficult to get a word in edgeways, then that child might find it more difficult. Michael Rosen: Well let me bring you in here, Michael Palin. You're involved with something that seems to be named after you, the Michael Palin Centre for Stammering Children. How did you get involved with that?
Michael Palin: It began really with my appearing in 'A Fish called Wanda' and playing Ken, the character who had a stammer. And after that there was quite a lot of publicity about the fact that I had played a stammerer and there had been a stammerer depicted in the film. And amongst the most sensible results of that and reactions to it was one from a lady called Lena Rustin and a man called Travers Reid who hoped to set up a centre for actually helping children specifically with their stammers. I particularly liked the fact they might be able to deal with childhood stammering because my father had quite a serious stammer which I'm led to believe began when he was a child and that's how the Michael Palin Centre for Stammering Children - which is really a mouthful and difficult to say, even if you don't have a stammer - that's how it came into being, about seven or eight years ago now.
Michael Rosen: So when you were a child you were observing a serious stammerer, your father.
Michael Palin: Yes.
Michael Rosen: What was that like?
Michael Palin: I think you tend to just accept it, that's the way he was, you know, and the less you thought about it the more normal it seemed. It was only when we were in more public situations or had friends round for the first time that I can remember then praying that he wouldn't stammer too badly that day, and we just didn't discuss things like that. And that's why the stammering centre is wonderful for me - and hearing what Rachel's been saying is wonderful too - because you can actually talk about something that really affected my father's life and not only his life but the life of the family and his friends so much, at such a deep level. And my father had quite a sense of humour, you know, bless him, he loved to tell jokes, but a stammer is not the best thing to have when you're trying to tell a joke, and so he must have dealt with that. And that made a man who I think was really quite mellow with a good sense of humour into someone who actually got very angry and cantakerous and irrascible with himself and with others because he couldn't communicate.
Rachel Everard: And then as well as all the features that a listener can hear, there's also all the feelings associated with stammering which somebody who doesn't stammer might not be aware of. So often people who stammer have very strong feelings of frustration and anger and are very ashamed of stammering, and are very embarrassed as well, especially if all their lives they've been trying to avoid stammering.
Michael Palin: I mean it is so utterly basic, the inability to communicate with someone else, and it's great to be able to discuss it and find out reasons for it now.
Michael Rosen: So are you saying that in a way in the family it was never referred to, it was almost a taboo subject?
Michael Palin: No, I think taboo is probably a very good word for it. Because nothing could be done, we just dealt with it. And my mother - she lived with it for a lot longer than we had and would just step in and help out and carry on the conversation - which I always thought was a very, sometimes quite a funny situation which we used in Wanda, which is somebody coming in to finish a sentence which is not what the person wanted to say in the first place anyway. So there were certain aspects, I thought, this is rather ridiculous, and my father would then get more and more anxious because he hadn't been able to say what he really wanted to say.
Michael Rosen: Coming back to you, Rachel, you're a therapist, somebody presents themselves and says, "I've got a stutter". What do you do? How do you help them?
Rachel Everard: I think the most important thing is find out how it affects them. I mean, if you're talking about how to treat children with stammers, I would like to say that it's very important that if a young child is stammering they get help very quickly, because we do know that the earlier a child receives help for stammering the less likely it is to become a long-term problem.
Michael Rosen: How can you help that child?
Rachel Everard: Well a lot of the work is actually done within the family - and I would like to make it absolutely clear that parents don't cause stammering at all but there are things that they can do which will help the child who stammers. So looking at how the parent interacts with the child and whether there are things that they can do a little bit differently which will then help the child, like letting them have their turn to speak, and letting them take the lead in a play situation, for example, and giving the child time to say what they want to say. And then often you work with the child directly on the stammer. So you encourage the child to perhaps say a word again more fluently, or to encourage them - perhaps when they're a bit older and they can do this - is to perhaps pause more, because often stammering is connected with a disrupted breathing pattern.
Michael Rosen: What about an adult? If an adult who has been stammering for 30, 40 years, are they beyond hope and redemption?
Rachel Everard: Not at all. I mean as such there isn't a cure for stammering but there are lots of really good things that a person who stammers can do. And there are lots of different approaches and they can fall into three camps really. There's the 'stammer more fluently' approach where you help a person become more accepting of their stammer, to look at the avoidances as well - if it's words or people or situations, to work on those things. And then there are 'speak more fluently' approaches where you're teaching a specific technique and the aim of those types of therapy is to speak more fluently.
[Note: A third type of approach is psychological.]
Michael Rosen: As far as you know, Michael, your father, he never got into a 'help' situtation.
Michael Palin: No he did, I think, and I found some books, after he died actually, all about relaxation techniques and I think those were dated back to the thirties, and I think they must have been his attempt to try and deal with it, and maybe because that hadn't worked out that's why again it wasn't really discussed.
Rachel Everard: There are lots of really good things that a person who stammers can do and I think there have been a lot of changes recently, so somebody who's listened to this programme, who's perhaps been stammering for a long time, and has tried different approaches, I would encourage them to try things again and perhaps to get in touch with the British Stammering Association and see what type of help is available now.
